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June 29, 2008
I am neither pro or con Richard Haley. Just a little confused as to why he has become such a source of conflict? Did he somehow rub folks the wrong way which would possibly explain the interest in his confidentials? I am not being confrontational, and would just like to be enlightened. Why is he being checked out to this extreme? Is it all that important an issue or a personal one? As I've never heard any negative comments regarding other board members, I just wonder if this is a real issue or not? Thanks for any information any of you may provide.

June 28, 2008
No one has pulled my weeds. Why?

June 28, 2008
Well, June 25th (obsession)............There have been legitimate questions regarding the community posted here, not questioning board members, dissension, or lifeguards and these get ignored by the board members (or those in the know) who read here. Why can't they address the questions and reaffirm naysayers by actually caring/creating action items about the community and grounds rather than their perceived bad reputations. By not doing so precedes the other.

Why does this site have to be about dissension? Why can't people ask and get answers from others since it can be hard to get answers elsewhere?

Why is the outside lighting dysfunctional?
When are the gutters going to be cleaned?
What is the siding schedule?
How many work orders and requests does it take to get something done?

It takes one little thing to get a fine from the association but yet it takes so much for co-owners to get answers and action.

As a side note, the person who actually questioned the amount of lifeguards on duty was not questioning legalities, they simply wanted to know why it was necessary since it seemed to them it was overkill and economically questionable. However, the mentality of those who promote dissension needed to respond rudely. So please review your definition and sources of dissension. Simply asking a question is not dissension - it's simply a question.

June 27, 2008
This is all smoke and mirrors because you are ignoring the Lakewoode by-laws. I think it’s just wonderful you contacted an attorney. Did the attorney advise you to ignore the Lakewoode by-laws?

The devil is in the details and here are the details. You are ineligible to be on the Lakewoode Board because you did not comply with the Lakewoode by-laws. You are not a co-owner.

These are the by-law facts. Each owner of a Parkhome in the Condominium shall become a member of this Association by the recording with the Register of Deeds, Oakland County, Michigan, a deed or other instrument establishing record to title to a Parkhome in the Condominium in the name of such Co-owner, and the delivery to the Association of a certified copy of such instrument.

You are not recorded owner with the Register of Deeds of Oakland County, Michigan, as required by the Lakewoode by-laws. You cannot dispute or argue with the by-laws and that’s exactly what you are doing. It’s a simple fact; you are not eligible to be on the Lakewoode board, period.

June 26, 2008
Haley is again missing the point. He correctly indicates a warrranty deed need not be recorded to be legally binding. However, our association rules apparently indicate it must be recorded. There is a difference. Smoke and mirrors don't make things right Richard! Now, why are you so anxious to be on our board when you've only just moved in to the state in the first place?

June 25, 2008
I will never understand the need by so many to bitch and moan to the point of obsession, about each and every non existant issue. It wouldn't occur to me to whine about whether we have one lifeguard or two. I don't care whether R. Haley has a recorded deed or not, and it isn't my business. As long as he represents Lakewoode well as a board member, I'm satisfied. An alternative would be for YOU to post your warranty deed for ALL to see, and run for the board. I'm positive each and every one of you could do a better job. Or not. (which would be my guess) If I were so unhappy living in Lakewoode and feeling "Things are not on the up and up", I would seek another place to reside. And, for all you paranoids, I am NOT a board member. Unfortunately Joyce is and in my opinion, the cause of so much dissention.

June 25, 2008
"Anyone in the pool area can help in an emergency and dial 911" What if there isn't anyone else in the pool area. I think you are assuming that the victim would be a toddler or a little kid accompanied by their parent. What if the victim were a 200 hundred plus pound adult swimming alone.

As to your observation that Novi Police officers travel one to a car, anyone who regularly travels Meadowbrook can testify that a second patrol car will usually show up at a traffic stop if it is after dark.

By the way, can anyone tell me why the speed limit is 45 on 10 mile, 35 on 9 mile, and only 30 on Meadowbrook, a much wider road?

Dan Mac

June 24, 2008
In response to Warranty Deed. Spreading mis-information again, Shame on You. My Attorney advised me that a notarized Warranty Deed is a legal and binding Document in any US Court, in any state, whether recorded or not. Whether a copy of it is on file with the County Deeds and Records of any State, is irrelevant to the Legality of ownership transfer within the document. Recording it only makes it a Publicly Accessible Document. Any one can call their attorney or the Registrar of Deeds and Document and ask if a Warranty Deed has to be recorded to make it a Legal Document. I encourage you to do, so you have the truth for yourself. Shame on you, for trying to lead these readers down a path of mis-information, for your own selfish agenda.

R Haley

June 19, 2008
Reviewing all of the items regarding Richard Haley does anyone know whether he has resigned? With all of the bluster and threats from Richard Haley is he concealing assets? He claims the home he lives in is recorded in the name of his wife? Her last is not Haley but a female name (another name) appeared on the warranty deed as of 10/19/2001. Why isn’t the name recorded as Haley? Is the story of moving from Florida to Michigan just a story? What’s going on here and why did he get on the board in the first place?

June 19, 2008
An excellent idea to save and make money for Lakewood and bring our monthly dues down. Start fining those that put their garbage out early, don't keep up thier units, and allow their pets to roam free. I see trash put out over the week end and it's an eyesore. Also it attracts vermin and is an embarrasement for company and smells. I feel shame for this mess and thank the trash men who have to pick up nasty garbage from torn open bags.

June 19, 2008
Dan Mac, YES! You are totally right. I must say "Sorry" for my belief that two guards were a requirement. However,I agree there should be more than one, especially as these are young people and probably never had to deal with a real emergency. I hope (and I'm sure Lakewoode does too) they never have to.

June 19, 2008
It is interesting to note that once again someone who appears to be on the board says we are required to have two lifeguards, then when a resident points out that the law says otherwise, there is no reply except for Dan Mac's which really does not make sense to me. Once again something just does not sound like it's on the up and up!

June 19, 2008
Dan Mac, if two lifeguards are so much better than one, then why do Novi Police only have one officer in each patrol car? Because it makes more economic sense. Anyone in the pool area can help in an emergency and call 9-1-1. In fact, I would guess many pool visitors are more qualified than the lifeguards to assist in such an emergency! We need to have one lifeguard to run the show and for legal and liability purposes. Two lifeguards and they just chat the hours away. It's common sense. Or maybe I should say uncommon sense?

June 18, 2008
I am a long time resident of Lakewoode, and a walker. I am in favor of the new buildings even though the additional funds are not easy to pay. One plus, I hope is it will force clean up in many areas. Overgrown or dead bushes will have to be taken out and the patios hopefully cleared out. It is not easy for me anymore, but I try to keep my home neat and at least plant a few flowers. I don't understand why some owners are allowed to have their places in such a mess ? Clothing, furniture, kid's toys, weeds, tools, bikes, etc. are in their patios. It gives a very bad impression and makes Lakewoode look trashy and unkept. It's beginning to look like a slum, especially to those of us who truly care about our surroundings and want to keep Lakewoode attractive.

June 18, 2008
How can we save a ton of money by eliminating a lifegaurd? (unless we are paying the two of them two tons of money for the summer) The law I would appeal to in this case is the law of common sense. If something tragic were to happen wouldn't you want one lifegaurd to administer first aide while the other called for an ambulance. Should they be awake and alert? Yes, but that is a management/supervisor issue.

If you want to talk about tons of money, just think what a wrongful death settlement would do to our reserves and insurance premiums.

Dan Mac

June 16, 2008
Michigan law (325.2198) indicates for large private pools, one lifeguard is required unless there are more than 75 swimmers "within the swimming pool." How often are there more than 75 people in our pool? The same law also says NO lifeguards are required if dah Board has written a contingency plan. I don't think I've ever seen 75 people in our pool. It would be very easy to limit the pool to a maximum of 75 people, people. That would save us a ton of money and the lifeguards would not be so easily distracted either.

June 15, 2008
Will the person who indicates two lifeguards are "law" please provide a reference to that law. Thank you.

June 13, 2008
June 12 _ Because by law two lifeguards are a requirement. So tired of postings by those who care to do nothing but complain w/o knowing the facts!!!!!!!

June 12, 2008
Warranty Deed and Legal Definition is the written document that transfers title (ownership) or an interest in real property to another person. The deed must describe the real property, name the party transferring the property (grantor), the party receiving the property (grantee) and be signed and notarized by the grantor. To complete the transfer (conveyance) the deed must be recorded in the office of the County Recorder or Recorder of Deeds.

No property records for Richard Haley exist in the Oakland County Register of Deeds for the City of Novi. The Lakewoode By-Laws unequivocally states that board membership precludes Co-ownership.

By-Laws I Membership And Voting
Section 9. Each member of the Board of Directors must be a co-owner in the project except as provided in By-Laws II. (exception, renters have permission in writing to vote from the co-owner)

By-Laws I Article II – Membership And Voting
Section 1. (a) Each owner of a Parkhome in the Condominium shall become a member of this Association by the recording with the Register of Deeds, Oakland County, Michigan, a deed or other instrument establishing record to title to a Parkhome in the Condominium in the name of such Co-owner, and the delivery to the Association of a certified copy of such instrument. No other person or entity shall be entitled to membership except the Developer and the Incorporators of this Association, as provided in the Articles of Incorporation. (the Association has always required a Warranty Deed)

The Lakewoode By-Laws state that to become a member of the Lakewoode Board of Directors, it is mandatory that a Co-owner file ownership information with the Oakland County Register of Deeds as well as that instrument being registered with the Association.

Richard Haley's board membership is not supported by the By-Law's mandate that ownership must reflect official filing with the Oakland Register of Deeds as well as being registered with the Association. Filing with the register of deeds after the fact will only identify an attempt to alter the reality of non-compliance to the Associations board member eligibility requirements.

Since Haley's membership on the board is in violation of the By-Laws, he should resign. His position on the board only reinforces the aura of impropriety.

This confounding situation affirms the old saying, 'the devil is in the details' because his Co-ownership in Lakewoode is technically not official because it is not filed with the Oakland County Register of Deeds which is mandated by the By-Laws.

What is disturbing is how Richard Haley's eligibility for board membership was not checked for official property ownership before confirming his tenure. Apparently, neither Richard Haley nor the board members checked/confirmed the By-Laws regarding adherence to eligibility requirements. This oversight reflects a sense of impropriety.

June 12, 2008
On Wednesday afternoon at our pool, two lifeguards were on duty and the place was busy. One lifeguard was obviously asleep. The other was playing with friends in the pool. What are we paying these people for, and why do we need two lifeguards? It seems they did a better job when there was only one on duty!

June 11, 2008
This statement was made here by a board member:

"The by-laws require a warranty deed be on file at the office, the by-laws do not require that the warranty deed be recorded at the county deeds and records."

I do not understand. I received a fine for not submitting a RECORDED deed to the office. I took a copy in twice but was told that it was not RECORDED and I was given the County Treasurer's office address to go and take care of it; and told I would be fined again until it was done. I will have to find my copy of the bylaws to re-read and understand that. If the above quote is true, then I am due a refund.

June 11, 2008
Yes........We have such a evil and "vindictive" board. They spend each and every moment at every meeting figuring out ways to get back at us. It's a conspiracy and we should all be very afraid. Thank God we have magic fairies taking care of our management, finances,upkeep of grounds, and trying their best to keep 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. When you figure out a way to run Lakewoode in a better way, the input would be appreciated. It does involve a lot of time, effort, and work for no pay or no thanks, but then there are those who appear to have the time. (at least to complain).

June 11, 2008
It's me again, Jim Joyce, email jimjoyce01@peoplepc.com and my phone number is, 248 349-5305. And this is my disclaimer.

Please be advised that the views expressed here (newsletter) as well as the Lakewoode website are strictly and solely those of Jim Joyce individually and not in his capacity as Director and they are not representative of the views of the Association or any Directors of the Board or Officers. This disclaimer also applies to views that may be expressed by Jim Joyce during telephonic communications.

Now, after all of that, I'm alive and doing fine. I have been monitoring the website and some pretty interesting things are going on. This is a community website that's why I directed everyone to it so people can have a voice. What's great about the website you are anonymous and get to state your opinion. Everyone has my phone number and email address to let me hear from you. I have heard from several of you and I will always reply.

June 11, 2008
I agree that the newly sided buildings look good.

However, in the usual Lakewoode manner we have no idea what is going on. When will our buildings be done? Which buildings are being done this year, and which of those buildings house directors? How hard is it for someone to post a simple message here, or send a "Nagy" letter, explaining such things?

It should also be noted that Michigan law dictates special assessments be only made if they benefit all assessed. If my building won't be done for 8 years, an assessment today does not benefit me in any way and therefore would appear to be illegal.

June 10, 2008
What some of those who critique this website fail to recognize is that it is simply a technological version of a community gathering and community discussions. Would it be much different if they all conversed through one email or met with each other daily or weekly? The same things would be discussed, the same questions raised, and those critiquing wouldn't have the benefit of knowing what's being discussed. So while you disparage the means, it also serves you. You want to use it to your benefit but also condemn it. Cake - Eat.

Opinions &/or research findings posted on a website are not slander. Slander (verbal), Libel (print), Cyberlibel (internet) all need to defame one's reputation and to have caused harm. Defamation or "defamation of character" are spoken or written words that falsely and negatively reflect on a living person's reputation. One must prove that the party defaming them knew the statements were false, made them with actual malice, or was negligent in saying or writing them. Since your ownership requirement to be a member of the board was at question - the facts found and noted here could not be proven as knowingly false and do not defame your character. Your eligibility is what was being questioned.

Those who critique this website and its participants still fail to read the uncertainty that exists within the community. If this uncertainty didn't exist, neither would these discussions. Many here do attend the meetings and still walk away with unanswered questions. Those in the know can certainly be selective their defensive responses to the posts here but doing only that still leaves the source of discontent open and oozing.

June 10, 2008
New buildings look great!!!

June 9, 2008
I understand why people don't use their names. I have had the backlash form the board, its not worth it.

June 8, 2008
Speaking of Mr. Joyce ~ Where is he? After all the rants and raves on this site as well as distributing junk mail you misguided people voted him onto the board. Perhaps his new duties are keeping him too busy to post. I'm sure he's devoting as much time and energy as other board members whom I frequently see on the grounds or when I stop into our office.

And....To those of you with so much excess time to whine and moan about non-existant issues ~ Why don't YOU step into the world of reality and run for the board or volunteer your services towards making Lakewoode a better place? Get a clue as to just how good we have it in terms of our board, management and staff.

June 8, 2008
Yes and we see how "SMART" you are , it makes since , I think it would been better said "SENCE" and one other thing the ones that complain the most do the least. Why don't we take all the negative energy spent on this website and direct towards doing something positive for the community.

June 8, 2008
What don't writers sign their names when they write here? In my opinion, it seems obvious that people don’t generally sign their names to this page because they fear retribution from what they perceive as a vindictive board.

June 8, 2008
I am appalled at the language that Richard Haley is using. He is combative, arrogant, and exhibits an authoritarian, dictatorial defiant attitude by using threats while trying to justify his position for being on the Lakewoode Board since he is not the owner of record. After reviewing what he has rudely spewed on the website is it that he may be concealing assets?

June 7, 2008
June 2 "What can we do"? Come to a board meeting and ask your idiotic questions face to face. Just what do you hope to hear on a web site such as this!

June 7, 2008
Speaking of Mr. Joyce.........Where is he? He spent a lot of time ranting and raving, putting letters in mailboxes, and by doing absoutely nothing besides stirring up trouble got you mal- contents to vote him onto the board. Guess he got what he wanted, and perhaps his new duties are keeping him too busy. I'm sure he's devoting a lot of his time and energy towards making Lakewoode a better place just as the other board members are doing. Funny though ~ I run into the same ones all the time on the grounds or when I stop into the office. Glad these are the ones I voted for.

June 7, 2008
June 2 "What can we do"? Come to a board meeting and ask your idiotic questions face to face. Just what do you hope to hear on a web site such as this!

June 6, 2008
You know, it makes since to have your name added to the deed before you became a board member not after. HUH You are really "SMART" for an ex-board member. ;) ;)

June 6, 2008
At least I let the readers know who I am not like mister no name. Are you afraid of the readers knowing who you are? Are you afraid that you will be held accountable for your lies? You hide behind a the secrecy of this website instead of coming to the open board meetings and challaging the board members face to face. Guess you would rather be a trouble maker in secrecy, HUH!!!. If you are so bent on getting rid of the board members, why haven't you filed a petition with county/city courts to have us removed from office instead of just running your mouth on this website? I can tell you why NO GUTS! You'll never do that, because you would have to expose yourself to defend the lies you are spreading and your audiance would find out the truth about you. I have to give Kudos to Mr. Joyce, even though I disagreed with him, at least he had the testical to put his name on all his comments. But You.... NO COMMIT!!!!!!? Truth is in Actions, Not words. So since your NOT going to do anything, guess it's NOT true.

Richard Haley

June 6, 2008
So many folks with idle time on their hands. How nice it it would be if they channeled their efforts towards useful/positive means. How easy it is to sit back and criticize and comdemn the very people who do so. Why don't YOU run for the board and find out just how much work and time is required for no pay and on the part of a minority very little thanks or appreciation. You could also volunteer a bit of your excess time. How thankful I am to not have any of you narrow minded, negative, ignorant residents as my neighbors. Fortunately, most (and I'll call them intelligent owners) are pleased with our board, management and staff.

June 6, 2008
Thank you Mr. Haley for explaining things. So we understand your wife had you added to the deed, which was not recorded by the county and is therefore not on the city's records. Odd, but apparently legal. Interesting that you happended to become a board member after having your name added to the deed.

Is that exactly the same thing that "mystery man" Clary did?

By the way, your language is quite inappropriate for someone in your position. We have you overseeing a multi-million dollar project here? Oh my!

June 5, 2008
In addtion, a search of the Novi property records indicates that Barbara Hamblin was the initial owner of her Lakewoode condo. It also reflects a later entry of an '˜Invalid Sale' of Barbara Hamblin's Lakewoode condo with Robert Clary's name added as a co-owner of the same Lakewoode property. It is this later record entry that makes Robert Clary's ownership of Lakewoode property appear questionable/spurious and thereby his eligibility for Lakewoode Board membership.

Robert Clary's ownership of Lakewoode property and eligibility for the Lakewoode Board membership appear spuriously equivocal as well as his late hour resignation on the day of the annual meeting before the announcement of the election results on April 30, 2008. Was the connection between Robert Clary's eligibility for the Lakewoode Board resolved and reconciled by his last minute resignation?

The timing of Robert Clary's resignation should be explored to determine its impact on the present Lakewood Board membership roster. The Novi property records indicate the appearance of questionably spurious eligibility for Lakewoode Board members Robert Clary as well as current Lakewoode Board member Richard Haley.

There appears to be eligibility, resignation and election issues that should be explored, explained and resolved/reconciled to dismiss/avoid the appearance of impropriety.

June 5, 2008
If you trouble makers who make up this shit would research your facts before you print them on this network, you would have found out that there is a notarized WARRANTY DEED in my name for the property owned by my wife and I on file in the Condo Office. The by-laws require a warranty deed be on file at the office, the by-laws do not require that the warranty deed be recorded at the county deeds and records.

When my wife moved back to Michigan to finish out her career, I was living in Florida finishing out my career. It was easier for her to put the property in her name, so we wouldn't have to keep mailing documents back and forth between Michigan and Florida for signatures. Once I moved up here, we had a warranty deed to include me as co-owner of the property notarized and put in our file at the Condo Office to comply with the by-laws.

Now the next time my name appears on this network with slanderous commits and lies, I will have my attorney file a slander suit against the individual spreading the garbage. Win or loose, doesn't matter to me, it's the principle and I hope you have a lot of excess money to waste defending your commits. Verbal slander is hard to prove but written slander on a public network is different story. Regards

Richard Haley

June 4, 2008
I'm sure board members are reading this network...so...can one of you tell us what is going on? Are there members on the board that are not to be on it? Is there some underhand stuff going on that we don't know about? How about some communication from our board members!!!!! You represent us so it is time for you to let us know what you have done!!!!!

June 3, 2008
Does anyone know if Richard Haley has resigned from the Lakewoode Board yet?

June 2, 2008
Now there are questions about three board members? This is getting out of hand! What can we do?

June 1, 2008
I checked and I too cannot find any record of a Richard Haley owning property in Lakewoode, this according to city records. Mystery man resigned recently, and I heard Nagy took his seat after she was voted out. Is that true? We voted on 3 open positions and the 3 people who were elected should now be board members. We did not vote on 4 open positions, so Nagy should not be seated today. We had 8 board members before the last election, and there are questions about the eligibility of 3 of those board members? That's nearly half our board members who may not have even been qualified to be on the board!

May 30, 2008
Have any readers here (in the ranches) had their windows replaced? Would you share the approximate cost? Thanks...

I need to know when Bldg. 85 will be sided - the windows are awful and need to be replaced (for at least 5 years). I have to coordinate many things to do this and under the circumstances regarding the ownership of the unit, it may take a little while to work out. If the construction company needs to do anything to the windows in the least when they perform the work, these windows will be even worse.

It only makes sense to do the windows just before the siding is done. The window installers won't need to worry so much about doing the "finish" work and would save a little money.

Why isn't there a siding schedule?

Is there any way to find out when a building is scheduled to be done?

May 30, 2008
Regarding the communiqué of the eligibility of Richard Haley. A May 30, 2008 search of the Novi property records, at cityofnovi.org, indicates that Richard Haley does not own a condo or any property in the City of Novi. Richard Haley is ineligible for a seat on the Lakewoode Board and for that reason should resign immediately.

May 29, 2008
Will the same company doing the siding renovations be offering any kind of deals in the upgrading of patio doors if needed.

May 29, 2008
Eligibility is a prerequisite for Lakewoode Board membership that precludes condo ownership in Lakewoode. A search of property records in Novi does not indicate that Richard Haley owns a condo in Lakewoode; thereby not being eligible to be on the Lakewoode Board and should therefore resign immediately.

May 28, 2008
I had noticed when I walked by the ranch units on Woolsey. Thats the first ranch unit having the siiding replaced. As I stated on May 19 that the storage units were not removed and new plywood & tyveck were not installed on the building walls in that area, there is a void on that section of the building. Why would they do this? Instead they cut the tops off the storage area's enclosed them to the soffets to the roof & wrapped that with the vapor barrier.

What the heck are they doing the dryer vents exhaust into those storage area's. The tops had a gap to let the moister get out and vents on the side to improve air flow. If these area's are completely enclosed that defeates the whole rotting problem with some of the buildings. That area of those units have gas lines, phone and electric and dryer vent openings into those units. This is a critical area of those units. Why would they even think of doing this? This is an area of a lot air infilltration. For what this is costing us. I think this is poor workmanship and or miss management. The construction on the ranch units should stop now. Untill this is addressed correctly.

May 25, 2008
Are positive remarks posted on this site as well as the negative or are they removed?

Answer from Community Feedback Network
All comments are posted unless they are deemed to be spam or are of an inappropriate nature.

May 22, 2008
Last Saturday I took a walk and looked at the work done,the siding on Building lll off Cranbrook. This is the first building that they worked on.

I spoke to the Homeowner, He said that the Contractors did damage going right into the interior walls. He said they pounded right into his inside walls. He told me to make sure that I take pictures of every damage done and remove everything off of your walls when they do my Building. He said he spoke to the supervisor of the construction crew and he said they would take care of it.

This sounds like a big stressful issue to me. This better be all corrected before they do my Building. They will have to pay for all damage done to my Condo,including my garden and evergreens/bushes

May 22, 2008
Would someone please reply: why is the lawn and driveway still torn up on the corner of Cranbrooke and the 22800 cul-de-sac from last winter's work and what is being done about it?

May 22, 2008
I like the fact that they are doing the oldest, largest buildings on Cranbrooke Dr. first. This is what people see first, and provides the first impression of our complex. I hope they continue to do the oldest buidling along Cranbrooke Dr. not only for first impression, but so that it doesn't look odd half done and half not for years.

Also, even though I've paid my assessment for this project, I still have no idea when my building might be done. Communication is STILL very poor overall is is STILL the #1 problem of our complex's management and board.

May 19, 2008
I took a walk to see the new siding project that I hope is not finished on bldg #111. Thats the first one done off of Cranbrooke north of Nine mile. I'm not sure about the brick work put on the building it looks a little over powering in contrast to the siding. Maybe it's me but it looks a little to large. I did happen to notice that as I walked down Woolsey towards Cranbrooke. That the backside of that building the trim work that surrounds the door walls and windows is not horisontally level with the roof and building. There must not have been a level chalk line snapped for the the trim to compensate for the windows and doorwalls not being square and plum to the building. I hope that this work is not signed off for this building and that things like this will be corrected. Which brings up a point who signs off on each building after the work is finished? And what guarrenty on workmanship, labor to repair any of those defects? Is it 90 days 6 months 1 year? I hope it is a little longer than that for what is being paid for each building.

I also noticed that when I walked by the ranch unit's being done on Woolsey why the storage units were not removed to have new plywood and tyvek barrier installed like the rest of the building? I believe that you do not need any gaps or voids in siding and vapor barrier replacement. Why would something like this be over looked and not done at the same time as the rest of the building? Hopefully these questions will be addressed and corrected in a timely manner before any other work is continued.

May 15, 2008
I disagree with the May 14 poster regarding this community resembling the projects. Yes, there are a few people who do let some things around their property go and should be cleaned - but - inasmuch as I may voice some problems that we're having recently, I don't believe all fault falls upon the management here nor do I believe that new siding will fix all of these problems.

A community is made up of people. And if a community fails, it will be at the main fault of the people - not solely at the hand of a board or the management. This complex isn't a business in which we are all employees whose only recourse is to update our resumes and sit on our hands while management runs the company into the ground. We are co-owners. We have stake, we have responsibilities, and we have say.

If any undesirable and unsightly matters are troublesome, a "good" community would come together and fix the problem. If you have a neighbor whose area isn't up to par - take your neighbor into consideration (i.e. handicapped with excessive weeds) when you report the situation to the property manager. Help them if needed. If their unit needs landscaping and they are on a fixed income, work together to rectify the issue rather than alienate or disgrace your neighbor. A continuous report and fine makes a good community not. Some do choose to let things go and with proper reporting and attitudes - it can come together - BUT - that relies on the people of this community, not only the management.

Improvements that I feel could be made that could help the residents and the management is a schedule implemented for general maintenance - published and consistent from year to year. As an example would be Gutter cleaning in April, bush trimming in May and September, and once a month lighting checks, etc. etc. It would help residents feel more secure that their investments and family homes are being looked after as well on the outside as it is on the inside. Eliminating work orders for routing maintenance would put residents at more ease, generate more patience, and is a nice selling point.

This isn't an upscale community with million dollar homes in which we all can rest assured everyone's property, belongings, and mannerisms reflect that of our own capacity and tastes. This is an affordable community that deserves a little more credit than the previous resident of May 14th provided. As one who looked at other communities in the past, I feel privileged to live in Lakewoode, in Novi on a "project" income.

May 14, 2008
I rented a 3 bedroom from a landlord at Lakewoode Parkhomes for 4 years, thank god I got out. The landlord was cheap, and never really fixed anything around the old property or change my furnace filter, my filter was changed once a year and my gas bill was very high. I was getting charged way to much per month for that old small 1000 square feet place and my home had black mode growing and a bees nest, the gutters were a mess. Aside from that, I felt like for Lakewoodes being older condos, the association should have started giving the exsteriors face lifts because the wood on my porch where the gas meters were, not to mention my fence was rotting and smelled mildewed. People around there also never cleaned up behind their pets, and those goose droppings were bad and stained the concretes. I only delt with that old place because I loved the school district, but I now live in a very sunny state in the west coast thank god. Lakewoode look like projects. They are very gloomy and dingy now, and I know they could be better, even the clubhouse bathroom and pool area is not nice, and that lake is filty. Those condos should be turned into rentals because they don't sell very well.

May 13, 2008
Hello - I agree and disagree with things that are being posted...my concern is that, as others have pointed out, that there is alot of negative attitude being thrown around. I would not even want to attend a board meeting, knowing that it will be full of uncomfortable moments of disrespect between grown adults. I don't think we are going to accomplish anything with board members being at each other's throats.

What we need to do now is move forward...let's fix the things we can and concentrate on the positive. Our buildings are badly in need of repair, sometimes I feel like mine should just be demolished and rebuilt. The siding project is a positive thing, let's work together to make it a successful project.

One thing that needs to be monitored is that the work being done is of high quality. When I walk around and look at the "new" roofs, I cringe, because they are bumpy and look unprofessional, like the shingles were just put on over top of bad wood. What a waste. But hopefully this project will be different...

May 9, 2008
Dah Board Number Forty

It's me again, this time it's about letter I sent to Dah Board on  May 8th, 2008.  From Jim Joyce, email jimjoyce01@peoplepc.com and my  phone number is, 248 349-5305.

I would like to invite everyone to the monthly Board Meeting Wednesday,  May 14th, 2008 at 07:00pm. 

The letter below was sent to Dah Board requesting two items be put on  the agenda.  These two items fall under the agenda category '˜Board  Member Comments and Observations'. 

I will save the rousing cheer for Dah Board until after the monthly  board meeting. 


Jim Joyce                              248.349.5305
22403 Cranbrooke, Novi, MI 48375       email  jimjoyce01@peoplepc.com

May 8th, 2008
Fellow Board Member,
I am requesting some time be set aside for two agenda items that I  would like to discuss with the entire board at the regular Board Meeting,  Wednesday, May 14th, 2008 starting at 7:00pm.  The total time should not  take more than five to ten minutes.  I hope everyone got this letter  because I wasn't certain I had everyone's correct address. 

Thank you,

Jim

Jim Joyce


May 8, 2008
No, all the board members were not there only the 4 on the color committee, However, 2 of the other 9 board members did stop by to see what was going on and then left. It was 4 1/2 meeting from 12:00 to 4:30

May 7, 2008
Just Curious

EXACTLY!!!

May 7, 2008
I called the city when the strips were painted. It was a city contractor who made the mistake. They removed them at their expense.

May 6, 2008
Drove by the Office about 3:30 today.
Garage Door open. Lots of Board People around.
Were all Board Members invited??
Just Curious

May 6, 2008
so, does anybody know what was up with the stripes dividing each side of the boulevards? who did that and why?

May 6, 2008
Are the color schemes selected during the Saturday meeting in the office for viewing?

May 5, 2008
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May 4, 2008
May 3rd
Would you like your invitation to the meeting engraved or may we just give you a phone call?
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Is this writer a board member? Really. If so, you have no business. Are they all this "professional"?

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May 4, 2008
Just Amazes Me ~ You hit the nail right on the head! I for one do not see this "Individual" rescuing Lakewoode. Actions speak louder than words and the constant stirring of the pot with an arrogant, know it all attitude, fails to work for me and probably won't for others who unfortunately voted him in. Ask him how many condos within our area he has visited and what their maintenance and more importantly their assessment fees have amounted to.
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Uh, he was JUST voted in. This post doesn't make any sense.

May 5, 2008
A new board member drives through the parking lot of the office and notices some people sitting in chairs at the back of the office with the garage door open. He doesn't stop to find out what is going on; instead, he goes home gets onto his computer and claims, he noticed a SECRET meeting at the office. First off, if, it were a meeting in secrecy, they would not have been sitting chairs at the back of the office with the garage door open so the world could see. I know, because curiosity made me stop to find out what was going on. Too bad your new board member didn't. If he had stopped, he could have helped pick out the color scheme of the next two buildings. The meeting was the color committee, trying to decide on the colors for the next 2 buildings. How is he going to represent his voters if he is too afraid to check out those "so called Secret Board Meetings" when he discovers they are going on.
DAH
Just Curious

May 5, 2008
This "special" meeting that was held on Saturday....Why were the new members of the board not invited?? As of the 30th. they were members of the board! What is going on? It is time for the board of directors to let the association members know. It is starting to smell fishy. Let's clean up our acts and start doing what has to be done to run a good board of directors.

May 5, 2008
It seems to me that the real issues here are two-fold. First, I think Jim is correct about the inability of the previous board to properly manage a large project. We have been through many office secretaries, property managers, and maintenance companies in the past ten years. High turnover is a sign of mismanagement. Little things like lost work orders, poor quality tree trimings, payments not taken from accounts, etc. all indicate a management issue.

Second, the previous board had a bad case of miscommunication. We had a nice website and they took that down. We had monthly newsletters and now we are lucky to see 3 a year and each says the same thing. We had notices about board meetings and now no one is invited. We were going to have a meeting twice over to talk about the siding project and that never happened.

Did Jim get some people riled with his numerous insightful postings? Yes, and I'm guessing that was his nobel intent - to get people thinking and talking. It worked. Thank you Jim.

Now, let's hope the new board (minus Nagy with any luck) can improve upon the previous board's shortcomings.

May 5, 2008
Regarding meetings notices and the snide reply of May 4th which is obviously from a board member. In the past we were informed when meetings would take place, and that's just common sense. Why would anyone need an invitation, or phone call? Just post the information here or on the street board signs like it was in the past. Duh...

May 4, 2008
May 3rd
Would you like your invitation to the meeting engraved or may we just give you a phone call?

May 4, 2008
Just Amazes Me ~ You hit the nail right on the head! I for one do not see this "Individual" rescuing Lakewoode. Actions speak louder than words and the constant stirring of the pot with an arrogant, know it all attitude, fails to work for me and probably won't for others who unfortunately voted him in. Ask him how many condos within our area he has visited and what their maintenance and more importantly their assessment fees have amounted to.

May 4, 2008
Dah Board Number Thirty-nine

It's me again, this time it's about the people of May 3rd, 2008. From Jim Joyce, email jimjoyce01@peoplepc.com and my phone number is, 248 349-5305.

You have the right to remove any director at any regular or special meeting of the Association dully called.

You also have the right to contact the Federal Housing Commission, the State of Michigan and any other legal authority to have you concerns heard.

The By-Laws concerning removal of directors at any regular meeting and holding special meetings are displayed below. This is your decision to do what you want with them.

By-Laws II of Lakewoode Parkhomes Condominium Association
Article III Board of Directors

Section 4 Removal of Directors.

Any regular or special meeting of the Association dully called, any one of more of the directors may be removed without cause by a majority of the Co-owners and a successor may then and there be elected to fill the vacancy thus created. Any director whose removal has been proposed by the Co-owners shall be given an opportunity to be heard at the meeting.

To the person of May 3rd that wrote.

It just amazes me. The Board is made up of 8 members. The president is elected by the board members. One individual has criticized Dah Board for the past year, and got himself elected. It just amazes me how this individual thinks he will accomplish anything by alienating all the other board members, because each board member has only 1 vote. Dah, 1 vote against 7. How did this individual think it possible to take over and run all the projects with only 1 vote. JUST AMAZES ME!!!!!! And the people that elected this individual are DAH AMAZING !!!!!

Just Amazed

My answer to you that is someone had to speak up! So I spoke up!

The power for change has always been with all of you. I am just a single voice that is asking questions and letting you draw your own conclusions.

I hope everyone will now start finding his or her voice so you can speak up or there will be no change.

I was well aware of the Saturday gathering because I saw it myself. So maybe we need to question what's going on? Is it some more of the same ole same ole?

I can't give Dah Board any more rousing cheers. Now it's up to all of you. I have brought it to your attention. So the question is should you exercise your own voice?

Now the meeting By-Laws!

By-Laws II Of Lakewoode Parkhomes Condominium Association Article II

Meeting Of Members

Section 3. Special Meetings. Special Meetings of members may be called by the President whenever he deems such advisable, and shall be called by the Secretary when so ordered by the Board of Directors or upon the written request of members entitled to not less than twenty-five percent (25%) in value of all voter entitled to be cast at such meeting or at the request of the Federal Housing Commission or his representative. Such request will state the purpose of purposes of such meeting and the matter proposed to be acted on thereat. The Secretary shall give notice stating the purpose or purposes of the meeting to all members entitled to vote at such meeting. No special meeting need be called upon request of members entitled to cast less than fifty percent (50%) in value of all votes entitled to be cast as such meeting to consider any matter which is substantially the same as a matter voted upon at any meeting of the members held during the preceding months.

Section 4. Notice of Meeting. Except otherwise provided by law, notice of each meeting of members, whether annual or special shall not be given not less than ten (10), nor more than ninety (90) days, before the day on which the meeting is to be held, to the representative of each Co-owner at the address shown in the notice required to be filed within the Association by Article II, Section 4 of By-laws I by delivering a written or printed notice thereof to him personally, or by mailing such notice, post prepaid. Except where expressly required by law, no publication of any notice of a meeting of members shall be required. Every such notice shall state the time and place of the meeting and shall state briefly the purpose thereof. Notice of any meeting of members shall not be required to be given to any member who shall attend such meeting in person or by proxy. Notice of any adjourned meeting of the members shall not be required to be given, except when expressly required by law.

May 4, 2008
In all of your amazement, you seem to have forgotten that it is the association who elects the members who elect the president. If 'the other board members' aren't working for the association and rather power play on issues and the one board member who does represent the association - it will be known and you might be amazed to find 7 other board members without a position. Alienation? Sure they will be....but by more than just one board member.

Given your last statement (And the people that elected this individual are DAH AMAZING !!!!!), you must already feel alienated by the association - for what reason may we ask?

May 4, 2008
I agree - we should get to vote on the 4th seat that Nagy seems determined to steal on the board. There were 3 openings we voted on, not 4. If Clary resigned AFTER people voted then his seat should either be left vacant until the next election or we need to vote again. I personally think 7 board members and one property manager is enough. The people spoke and did not elect Nagy. She should not be on the board today!

May 4, 2008
To the person May 3 'It just amazes me' wake up and smell the coffee. You can not see what is going on in this complex. Look arround you must not see what's going on here at Lakewoode.

May 3, 2008
Nagy got back on the board . Why would mystrey man quit to keep her on the board? If she was voted out even though one quit I think that seat should be up to another vote by the co-owners of lakewoode she is not the only one I believe thats wants to be on the board. It's time for change and a better lakewoode.

May 3, 2008
Did you attend the meeting at city hall on 4-30-08? If you did not it is to bad because you missed all the excusess the board members made about all the statements they made at the last meeting there last year. And no matter what comment you made to board about it. They were not going to take it into consideration. So what does that tell you. Our suggestions or concerns do not matter to them. They are going to do what they want to, no matter what we as co-owners have to say. As to Nagy's responce that they do not need the co-owners vote on a muti-million dollar project to "OUR" complex is "XXXXXXX". She stated it was not in the bylaws then it needs to put into the bylaws to protect the best interest of us the co-owners. And by the way yea to the co-owner who made the construction company admit that it was not in the contract that if a interior wall stud was rotten that they would charge us extra to replace it. Because it was not included in the contract the board ok'd. It is going to cost us more when things like this is discovered. That was never told to us at any meeting i.e. news letter or mail notification by the board. We are tied into a 2 year contract at this point. I believe some buildings do need repair. But I also believe that if we had a good crew that maintained these buildings we should have been informed that complete siding needed to be replaced years ago and that the cost would have been less costly to us at that time. And one last thing why in the heck are we paying a propery manager that much money to over see a project that the construction company should be held accountable for. It could go towards the repair of the buildings. If you recieved a copy of the financial statement you can see the outragous amount he is being paid. If the construction company is not doing what they are contracted to do thats what we are paying a lawyer for. Lets see what that board has to say about that.

May 3, 2008
I drove by the office today and noticed that the Board was meeting. In the past they invited residents and told us when the meetings were. Why don't they do that any longer?

May 3, 2008
It just amazes me. The Board is made up of 8 members. The president is elected by the board members. One individual has critized Dah Board for the past year, and got himself elected. It just amazes me how this idividual thinks he will accomplish anything by alienating all the other board members, because each board member has only 1 vote. Dah, 1 vote against 7 How did this individual think it possible to take over and run all the projects with only 1 vote. JUST AMAZES ME!!!!!! And the people that elected this individual are DAH AMAZING !!!!!

Just Amazed

May 3, 2008
Dah Board Number Thirty-eight

It's me again, this time it's about the Annual Meeting and Dah Letter Dah Board send on April 23, 2008. From Jim Joyce, email jimjoyce01@peoplepc.com and my phone number is, 248 349-5305.

Well I guess you didn't expect to hear from me but I will continue to use this forum to let you know what's going on with Dah Board. Boy Dah Board is miffed about this website!

I want to thank everyone who voted for me, Thank You. Oh my gosh, the annual meeting was awfully lively to say the least. It's still up in the air whether the Dah Current President Of Dah Board has a seat on the board or not.

At the Annual Meeting the term fixed price contract was bandied around. I thought I would give you the definition of a fixed price contract. So can you determine if it is a fixed price contract or a time and materials contract with open-ended costs and trying to figure out who is responsible for paying for it?

Fixed Price Contact A type of contact where the buyer pays the seller as set amount (as defined by the contract) regardless of the seller's costs (all inclusive).

From the letter of April 23rd, 2008 from the Dah Board and Dah President of Dah Board and I quote, '˜We have negotiated a contract with a two year lock on unit labor costs and quality discounts on materials and material salvage pass-through as an off-set resulting in a cost of building 111 just under $40,000.'

Oh really? Well the discussion got around to items that were not included in, 'a contract with a two year lock on unit labor costs and quality discounts on materials'. Then the magic words were spoken, it will be handled by a '˜Change Order'.

Change Order - Unilateral written order by a project owner directing the contractor to change contract amount, requirements, or time. Such changes must be within the scope of the contract and in accordance with the contract's Changes clause to be legally implemented without the consent of the contractor.

So is this a Fixed Price Contract or a Time and Material Contract? A time and materials contract has an open-ended costs. So who pays for the items not included in the original contract? We still don't know!

Time & Materials Contract - Arrangement in which a contractor is paid on the basis of (1) actual cost of direct labor, usually at specified hourly rates, (2) actual cost of materials and equipment usage, and (3) agreed upon fixed add-on to cover the contractor's overheads and profit (income).

Well it appears we have a fixed price contract with open-ended costs, which by its very nature is an oxymoron!

Another item in the same letter stated, '˜As we reported in the Newsletter, the Board of Directors has hired (name blanked out) as our full time Property Manager. His contract was reviewed and approved by our attorney.'

So what do you want us to do with that information? My question is so what?

I don't think Dah Board can stand any more of our rousing cheers! But the what the hey, way to go Dah Board!

May 2, 2008
I attended the meeting on the 30th. It was what I expected...a lot of anxiety and frustration. However if we do not bond together, this will be a mess. Mr. Joyce is on the board and some are pleased and some are not. It will be a tough ride for him...we, as memebers of this association need to start attending some of the board meetings in order to visibly see what is going on. I was appalled by the "seargent at arms". I think he is a hot head and a bully....not what a group of residents should witness by a board member. This group of people must work together and form a strong unit in order to do a good job. WE must be more active in our association....WHERE WERE YOU ON THE 30th.?????

May 2, 2008
Nagy came in 4th in the election, and is only on the board today because the mystery man suddenly quit? Oh my, she sure knows how to steal an election!

May 2, 2008
Election results:

James Joyce received a three year term.

Jim Terezes received a three year term.

Sharon Hill recieved a three year term.

Rob Clarey resigned from the Board on April 30th 2008, this left a position on the Board up for election. Toni Nagy with the lowest number of votes will take this postion for 2 years.

May 1, 2008
Would someone please post the board election results here. I heard a rumor that Nagy is finally out?

April 29, 2008
Dah Board Number Thirty-seven

It's me again, this time it's about the Dah Board being annoyed with so many questions being asked about the siding project. From Jim Joyce, email jimjoyce01@peoplepc.com and my phone number is, 248 349-5305.

Dah President of Dah Board and Dah Board sent a letter, dated April 23rd, 2008 indicating they are pretty miffed about what everyone has to say about them on this website.

Wow! Let's digest that one. Dah Board for good or bad is actually communicating for a little while at least and will no doubt go back to the same ole, same ole way of doing business! Way to go Dah Board!

I hope all of you will be at the Annual Meeting on April 30, 2008. The meeting will be at the Novi Civic Center, 48175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, MI, starting at 07:00pm.

Now to the person of April 26th, who asked, "Is the Townhouse condo owners assessments higher than the Ranch owners? There is far more siding to be installed. Since their market resale is higher, it only seems logical."

The answer is 'Yes' the assessments are higher.

Did the Association get to vote on the style?

The answer is 'No' the Association had no input. Dah Board made that decision and now you see what we got for the money we are paying! That would have been one of the many items the Association would have discussed at a special meeting for the siding project that Dah Board refused to convene!

Here are some more questions that need to be answered.

Who is the authorizing agent to pay all project invoices and provide financial statements?

Who is going to notify the Association of all project expenditures?

Who is going to create and maintain a project tracking system?

Who is responsible for issue resolution and tracking?

Who is going to audit the project to ensure the contactor is fulfilling all contractual obligations?

When do we know when the project is completed?

Do you think Dah Board has the expertise or knowledge to manage and successfully complete the siding project, without continued escalating costs, mismanagement and prevent the Association questioning anything Dah Board does?

Let give a rousing cheer just before the Annual Meeting for the methodology Dah Board is embarking on what is called Seat Of The Pants (SOP) project management. Way to go Dah Board!

April 26, 2008
They have started the siding on one of the Townhouse condos near 9 Mile.

I was disappointed to see it was the same siding rather than the smaller slatted siding, which to me, looks more up to date and sleeker. I also feel it's a mistake not starting on the older units and finishing them within the 2 year contract to best utilize the rolled-in repair contract costs.

A couple questions:

Is the Townhouse condo owners assessments higher than the Ranch owners?
There is far more siding to be installed. Since their market resale is higher, it only seems logical.

Did the Association get to vote on the style?

It just seems to me that the way this project has been handled resembles more of a co-op style of ownership.

April 26, 2008
Dah Board Number Thirty-six

It's me again, this time it's more stuff about the Dah Board, the Annual Meeting and Dah Property Manager. From Jim Joyce, email jimjoyce01@peoplepc.com and my phone number is, 248 349-5305.

But first to the person of April 22nd that wrote, "So, we are having the annual meeting on the 30th, but what about the meeting with Jim? There are a lot of questions that need answers."

The meeting I proposed got put on the back burner because the Annual Meeting was to take place on the 30th. But that doesn't mean we won't have one or more. Please stay tuned. The Annual Meeting is going to very lively and I hope you will attend because there are going to be some very interesting items that will be brought out in the light of day.

Now some questions about Dah Property Managers that need to be answered! Is it true that the Dah Property Manager does not have many fans and people are pretty miffed?

Is it that Dah Property Manager is arrogant, rude, disrespectful, gives flipped answers and has a condescending attitude toward Association members.

Regardless of who you are, all Associations members must be treated with dignity, courtesy, manners and respect without exception.

Is it that Dah Property Manager sporting a nasty '˜TUDE'? Do we want to quickly remedy that '˜TUDE' at the Annual Meeting or do we want to have more of the same ole same ole?

Here are some more questions that we need ask Dah Board about the siding project!

When is Dah Board going to provide the Association with the Actual Costs for the Siding Project along with the budget items and cost assumptions that were the basis for the total cost of the project?

Or is it that the siding project budget is like a house of cards that collapses under the sheer weight of invalid cost assumptions and revenue neutral statements in the shades of Enron?

We need to know what is the background of the people who are involved in the siding project? Is it just Dah Board and Dah Property Manager? I'll let you draw your own conclusion over that one!

Has a feasibility study been conducted with the proper analysis so project requirements can be developed and documented for Association review? What project management experience and professional credentials does the responsible person or persons have in running this type of project other than swinging a hammer? Lets see a resume!

Who is the coordinator and liaison between the Association and the construction company?

Who is responsible for managing the Associations expectations and answering questions?

Why didn't we have a project kick off meeting?

Why did the siding project begin without any Association input? What is the scheduled date each building is to have the siding replaced and how long will it take?

What is the Scope of the siding project?

Where is the Project Plan?

Where is the Work Schedule?

Where is the project budget?

Where is the Statement Of Work that the contractor must answer with his project plan?

Who is going to communicate to the Association via status reports all of the good and not so good news about the project?

When are we going to have project status meetings so we can be informed about the siding project?

Well let's give Dah Board another one of our well-deserved rousing cheers and it magnificent ability to not answer any questions about the siding project along with it's well known titanic failure to communicate! Way to go Dah Board!

April 25, 2008
Let me tell you about Bud Downing. He does not care about the financial being of us co-owners here at Lakewoode. When I saw a problem and pointed it out to him his remark was that it was city issue and take it up with them. Now what kind a responce is that when the issue concerns our buildings and grounds. He does not work in the best interest of us the co-owners.

I still say he works for dah board and not us the co-owners. For him to tell a co-owner to pay for this project out of the additional tax refund is rude, inconciderate, and a disgrace. For him to press the on going progress of this replacement of siding to the buildings of Lakewoode I say there is something wrong in "Denmark" oh I ment to say Lakewoode. Does it smell like a KICK-BACK to you? It smells like it to me.

I say at the meeting on April 30 we tell the dah board that we will not pay the additional assessment till we know everything there is to know about the repairs to the buildings. What are they going to do to us if no one pays the assessment. They will have a complex with no income at all. Can they afford to take everyone to court for the assessment? Let's see about that one.

Oh and by the way at the last meeting at city hall we were told that the contract was price was locked in for the complete repairs to all the buildings I.E. guess who stated that 'Bud Downing'.

Now we are sent a letter stating that it is only a two year deal. What the heck is going on here. Looks like a pack of lies to me. I do not know how dah board or Bud Downing can sleep a